Commission, fair board discuss responsibility for 4-H Building

By Charlene Sims, Journal staff

LCJeditor@icloud.com

MOUND CITY – After going into an executive session with Linn County Fair Association representatives on Monday, March 9, the Linn County Commissioners had a nearly 30 minute public discussion with the fair board members. The topic: The commission’s wish to hand the responsibility of managing the 4-H Building over to the fair board.

That discussion was sparked after the two heating-cooling units for the 4-H Building were not functioning properly. A discussion on repairing or replacing those units spilled over into kitchen appliances in the building needing replacement and who was in charge of renting the building out and how much did renters pay for its use.

At Monday's meeting, however, the fair board representatives were adamant that they did not want to take over the responsibility of the building.

Earlier in the meeting Commissioner Jim Johnson made a request for an addition to the agenda.

“I would like to have 10 minutes executive session with the three commissioners, our attorney, the clerk and the fair board representatives for attorney-client privilege, possible litigation for 10 minutes.”

However, later in the meeting when commission Chair Alison Hamilton made the motion for the closed-door session, there was no specific reason given as required by the Kansas Open Meeting Act (KOMA). And if the secret session was for attorney-client communication, having the fair board members – and even one person who was not a board member – in the session violated the KOMA exception for attorney-client privilege.

Kansas Attorney General opinion on that issue states “The exemption cannot be used if the attorney is not present or if persons other than the client and the attorney are part of the communication.”

So despite those two issues, the commission in a rare move asked and members of the press and audience to clear the commission’s chambers for the executive session. Commissioners usually retire to a back office in the Courthouse Annex for executive sessions.

After coming back from executive session, Hamilton said, “There was no action. We’ll continue discussions with the board at the table.”

Commissioner Jason Hightower said, “So this was in our discussion about the fair board building and the possibility of the fair board taking it on. What do you guys have to say in regards to that?”

“I say we just can’t hardly afford to take over the maintenance of it, the liability of it,” said fair board member Charley Johnson. “We’ll try to do the best we can to kind of help with it, but we just don’t have the people to be there, maintenance of it every other day or whenever it needs to be done,.

“We’ve got lots of things that we tried to spend our money on ,which we’re getting assistance from you, and we appreciate all of the help that you give us and we can’t hardly function without you. So, we will try to cooperate with you however we can. But we just can’t take the building over to our view anyway.”

Hightower said that it makes sense that the maintenance thing is an issue.

Well, that’s our issue. What our biggest issue is the maintenance of the building,” said Johnson.

Johnson continued, saying that it was time consuming and expensive for the county employees to go down to the fairgrounds.

Fair board member Roger Carbon said, “Everything down there is used an awful lot.”

Carbon said that once the county put cameras on the fairgrounds, it stopped vandalism. We used to have a lot of vandalism, he said, but we don’t have any now.

“So you can look up on tape and see how much the fairground is used and who’s using it. And it’s not just a small group, it’s a lot of people,” said Carbon.

Wilson told the commissioners that they need to confront the Sugar Mound Arts and Crafts Festival board members about paying rent on that building.

“They may be paying you $75 a day for two days for their office space in it, but you should be getting money out of their booths,” said Johnson.

The fair board gets a percentage of every booth in the other buildings, Johnson said. He added that was something the county needed to look into.

“But again as commissioners, that wouldn’t directly be related to us because we’ve given all responsibility to the (Marais des Cygnes Extension Service) office to take care of rentals,” said Hamilton. “So, if they’re renting it, and they’re getting a percentage from Arts and Crafts, then they’re turning it into us. If they aren’t, if they are, we don’t know. We never would know.”

Hamilton continued, “Maybe we need to reevaluate the rental situation with the Extension office because we are very unaware of anything that’s happening. What’s being given out for free? What’s being charged? When do we increase it? It’s been $75 for how many years?”                                                      

Community member Taylor Snyder, who accompanied the fair board members, asked how much the 4-H Building was used.

Hamilton answered that it was rented out 25 times in 2024. Hamilton said that they did not have the 2025 rentals, but there were 36 rentals in 2021, 26 in 2022, 26 in 2023, and 25 rentals in 2024.

“And in what condition is the building?” Snyder asked, apparently knowing the answer.

Hamilton said it was in fair condition.

Snyder asked, “Is that an issue?”

Hightower said it was an issue.

“Financially for us, it’s an issue and for rentals. I would say it is an issue,” said Hamilton.

“I just mean an issue in general,” Snyder said. “It seems like the public uses the building enough, and the fair uses the building enough and it’s not in good shape. I mean, the whole fair week, I mean, they use the building for the concessions suite a bit and every time we have events in there, if you’re trying to cook, if you’re trying to do anything. We’ve had benefits there for people with cancer. I think the whole community is affected by it.”

Commissioners Hamilton and Hightower expressed their agreement.

Hightower said that was why the commission was wanting to work with the fair board and hoping that improvements could be made that would help the building to take on a better image.

Hightower said that the commission was not trying to push for a taxpayers’ savings, He said the commission knew that if the budget goes away on the county’s end, it will be increasing on the fair board’s end.

“We were hoping that the fair board would be able to manage the building better as far as those things and getting it the way it needs to be than what we can as a county,” he said.

Snyder asked, “And that’s the fair board’s responsibility?

Hightower said, “It’s a 4-H Building. It’s located on the fair board (property). When we look at other counties like Miami and Bourbon County, they own their 4-H building, not the county.”     

Johnson asked, “How many of them have facilities as good as we’ve got? You’ve been to Miami County?”

“I’m at Miami County all the time, and I would say their facilities are on par,” answered Hightower. “I wouldn’t say that they are any better. Their 4-H building is not in the shape that our 4-H building is. It’s better.”

“Why wouldn’t we want to make ours better?” asked Snyder.

Hightower said he was all for making it better and he thought that could be accomplished better by having the fair board determine what it is and what it needs rather than the commissioners making that decision.

Fair board representative Stacy Brockus-Reagan asked, “When you guys talk about maintenance, what are you looking at doing? Are you just looking at heating and cooling?”

Hamilton said that the commission did not want to redo the kitchen without the board’s input.

Hamilton continued, “What I think I hear you saying is you don’t want them (fair board) to take it on. You want us to do better.”

Snyder agreed.

Hamilton said that she felt like that everyone wanted it to be better.

“It’s just who’s doing it,” Hamilton said. “And it’s hard for us to get it done. It’s hard for us to be the middleman of getting that done. We do allocate money. Do you want us to hold on to that money here? Let’s say we hold on to it and then we just wait for something to break and then you guys tell us? Or do you guys want to have that pool of money?”

“It’s like have a plan, have a goal and do it,” said Hamilton. Both Hamilton and Hightower said that was what they were interested in.

“The money is not going anywhere, but it sits here and we get to wait until someone in the community complains,” said Hamilton. “For the fair week last year, what happened? I’m like the kitchen isn’t working? What’s going on? My kids are in 4-H. I want the building to be better. When I went in and we didn’t have French fries. I mean that was devastating.”

Snyder asked how they could work together.

Johnson commented, “That isn’t their (county employees) No. 1 priority to go down there at the 4-H Building, you know, I mean to keep it up. It isn’t. I mean, it’s because they’ve

got other buildings that they’re taking care of. And I’m not saying they don’t, but you know they’re going to take care of the buildings that we have people in every day. I mean I just know that’s what’s happening.”

“Our main focus needs to be about kids,” Brockus-Reagan said.”That’s where our whole goal is. Make it better for the kids, for the community, whatever we can do.”

Hamilton said that on paper it just looks like the county was losing a lot of money.

“I don’t think it even looks like we are losing a bunch of money. I don’t think this building is about making money,” said Hightower. “I think it’s about the fact that we feel there’s disconnect between us and you guys and that was why we thought maybe the connection was that you have done so much with your fairgrounds and things that way.”

“As far as the kitchen, you need to get a commercial vent over your grill is the main thing,” said Johnson.

“But then the Extension, that’s where there is disconnect because (Abbie Powell, Extension acting district director) was just here two weeks ago and said that that’s not what she wants,” said Hamilton. “So that’s why we’re here. There’s a disconnect.”

County Clerk Chasity Ware added, “She suggested just two household stoves.”

Hamilton pointed out that if the commission had purchased two household stoves two weeks ago when Abbie asked for it, the fair board might be upset that the commissioners went that direction and didn’t give them what they thought they needed for the commercial kitchen.

“I have a question on that, who benefits from the kitchen?” asked Hightower. “Because we don’t have a 4-H food stand anymore, correct?”

Brockus-Reagan said they did rent it out to individuals for a day for $300.

“If we go back to Ali’s point on making money, we’re never going to recoup those costs by creating a commercial kitchen in there for one week of the year. How do we fund the commercial kitchen based off of one week of use,” asked Hightower.

Fair board representative Denny Brake said it was a big problem that the kitchen was not functioning like it did 20 years ago. He said now they have had to go outside the kitchen and cook on grills. He said he did not think the household ranges would hold up.

“Putting in the residential stuff would solve the immediate problem but then long term will be right back in here,” said Brake. “I do want to agree. We do have a disconnect between everybody because I really do think we all want the same thing. It’s just how do we get there?

“But I know that kitchen is a problem. It’s just gotten old and it needs maintenance and nobody knows who is going to do it. How are we going to do it?”

Josie Teagarden, fair board member who was on speaker phone said, “I would say from the sounds of this conversation that at the problem is not really with us. That it seems that there’s a disconnect  between the county commissioners and the Extension office.

“And so I guess my encouragement would be like maybe that needs to be a conversation before we continue to be involved in this conversation. Until they work out, like how often is this being used? Where is that money going and then can they look at an increase in rate on the rental and what does that do?

“Also, I would say there’s every now and again somebody says how are we supposed to get our money back? How are we supposed to fund this? And then somebody says well it’s not about the money. It's not about the money. I would implore you to look at the fairground’s financial, like the fair boards.

“We’re not there to make money. We do this to provide a service to the community, to provide entertainment, to provide activities for the youth. And so, the attitude of like we’re trying to make an ROI (return on investment) on this building, you’re not going to. And most of our tax-funded stuff in the community, I’m like, I don’t know how much money we’re making on that. It’s supposed to be a service.

“So I guess I’m a little frustrated with like the back and forth on that. I think if you want to make money on the building, then be straight about that or decide that this is a service we’re providing. But, I don’t know. I think there probably needs to be conversations between the commissioners and Extension and then bring us back in.

“And if that needs to be like that we form a committee that works closely with extension and the commissioners on maintenance and building stuff, whatever. But we’re still not in a position to take on the 4-H Building. Point blank, period. So, I don’t know what that continued relationship looks like but I think that there’s more issues with extension than there is with us communicating.”

“Isn’t Extension just to take the rentals?” asked Brockus-Reagan.   

Hightower said yes that’s all it was. To keep track of who’s coming in and who’s going out and the keys.

“And part of that is because I would say our main tenant in there is Extension but those aren’t being charged, of course, because that’s what it is there for,” said Hightower.

“In my opinion, you own the building yourself and you’re the ones that are going to have to come up with some money no matter what,” Carbon said. “Whether who’s doing anything. It would seem to me like we got 30-some guys on our board. But three people make a lot better decisions than 33.

“So, I think in the best interest for the county and for taxpaying and for everything else, I think you people need to retain the decision-making as far as working on it. You can hire somebody to go down there.

“Danny Nation goes down and does a lot of things in the 4-H Building, you know, fixing plumbing and this and that. So it seemed to me like you need to keep control of it since you’re in control of the money. And we get things done that sometimes it’s a little hairy. So, I think it needs to stay that way.”

Johnson said they could hardly pay the insurance bill on the multi-purpose building that the county built and then turned over to the fair board. The board will try to do whatever we can to try to cooperate both ways but it can’t really take over there.

“I do think the first thing is Arts and Crafts and see why we don’t get paid on the booths in that building,” Johnson said.

Hamilton asked if the fair board was taking the maximum mill. She asked Ware what it was.

Hightower said he wanted to say that it was a half mill that the fair board had allowed to them and they were taking $75,000, a little over half of the $128,000 they could take.

According to Kansas statute, counties are “authorized and empowered to make an annual tax levy of not to exceed five-tenths of one mill upon all the taxable tangible property of the county for the purpose of raising funds to be used for the erection and maintenance of buildings.”

Brake said, “We try to use that money very wisely and disburse it to as many projects as we can.

After the fair board representatives left, Hightower asked Public Works Administrator Jesse Walton if the county was where it could go out to bid for heating and cooling services. Walton said yes.

“For the 4-H Building or for the county as a whole?” Hamilton asked.

For the county as a whole, said Walton.

“What about the 4-H Building?” asked Hightower.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        “That’s included in it,” said Walton.

“Can we all agree that there is a disconnect between the commission and what’s really needed at the 4-H Building and the Extension office or do we feel like we like the way it is going?” asked Hamilton.

“If we don’t care, then it just needs to continue the way it is and we just pay for the repairs and we keep it maintenance,” she said. “But if we do care and we’re trying to recoup some of the costs, then we should probably look into the management of the 4-H Building because we’re the last to know if something needs fixed. We’re blamed for the last minute notifications and not having it fixed. We don’t have enough time to get it fixed before an event usually.”

“Well, if we maintain ownership of it, I think there are things we better fix,” said Johnson.

Hamilton asked if the commission cared how consistent the rentals were for the building, like some are free, some are not. Hamilton asked if Ware knew the scheduling of the building.

Paletta suggested that the commission communicate with the Extension office about how many rentals there are and how many people pay for the rental.

Hamilton asked Ware to check to see if the rodeo camp that comes from out of state uses the 4-H Building for free.

“The clerk does not see the scheduling, but I know from past experience that anytime we used it for anything that was kid-related, prom, we did not pay a fee,” Ware said. “So, if it was kid-related, we did not pay a fee. Anything else, I personally used it for, whether it was kid-related or not, we did pay a fee. So, I’m talking schools maybe not have to pay for it. YEC  (Youth Entrepreneurial Challenge) maybe did not have to pay for it or 4-H does not pay for it.

“But if it was me having like my daughter’s graduation party, I paid for it. Wedding reception, I paid for it.”

Ware added, “I am going to step out of my clerk position and just talk to you as patron right now. There is no way I would think twice about paying $200 renting that building. It’s air conditioned. There’s bathrooms. There’s a little kitchenette. There’s a large space. I would easily pay more money to be able to rent that facility than $75.

“As I’ve mentioned before, it was $75 30-plus years ago when I got married. It’s still $75 now. The cost of things continues to go up. And I understand that it’s not the most beautiful building from the outside, but you’re never going to be able to make even better renovations if you’re not increasing the cost even a little bit to get something started. That’s just me speaking as a patron.”   

Commissioner Johnson brought up questions about the kitchen and what should be done.

Hamilton said she thought they should have it bid on both ways, commercial appliances versus household appliances, and then also get input from the fair board and Extension on how they think it should be remodeled.

Walton’s opinions was to get rid of the commercial gas stove that is in there because when it is not used frequently it gets dirty. He recommended selling that stove and getting a smaller gas stove that can be cleaned more easily. He said the fryer could be put under the existing hood that is in there.

Walton said that he had talked with some contractors from the city who could get that hood set up the way it needs to work. He also said that they were going to need a fire-suppression system that will need to be inspected annually.

The commissioners approved a motion in favor of Walton getting bids for the kitchen to be redone, for repairs or replacement needed for the heating and cooling in that building and for the county HVAC maintenance contract.